I cracked up at the autistic comment. Eh, anyway, though, as I said above, I don’t want to club anyone. I just want them to be up front and go for it.

Roberta: Your last line also cracked me up. Good suggestions. All in all, it’s just not looking right, I think. I just really would have liked a good snog, is all.

Meanwhile, I’m ONE female, and the impetus behind each of the things I said is from very personal place and not from some groupfemalethink.

First of all, I don’t want to be pursued because I think it’s “the man’s job.” I want to be pursued, and I want a man who isn’t scared to state his mind, because that’s what I want. Everyone likes different things. Some people–of both genders–prefer the dominant, pursuant role. Some people–of both genders–prefer the slightly more submissive, pursued role. It’s not divided among male/female lines. I know this because men who prefer the submissive role, where the woman makes the moves, are attracted to me in droves for whatever reason. Pursuer men generally tend to be attracted to me far, far less often. And these submissive-approach men who are attracted to me expect me to take on the more dominant role of pursuer and pusher-along-of-the-relationship. I have done this–gone against the basic nature of who I am and what gives me the most pleasure (being pursued)–for a great number of men because I was attracted to them and cared about them and their feelings. I did this, repeately, for men I loved–despite being a person whose natural, shy tendencies left me longing to be able to be in the more pursed role, with a more demonstrative partner–for more years than I care to count, and quite frankly, I’m fucking tired of it. I’m tired of having to call all the shots and ask all the time for someone to be open with their emotions and how much they care–or don’t–about me. I’m tired of having to drive the relationship. I don’t even *like* doing it. And I’m tired of having to sit around and wonder if “he’s just not that into me” and having to be the one who finally breaks the ice. You’re telling me to consider the GUY and give him a break, to draw him out and lay the groundwork for him, because that is what would make him most comfortable. Well, forgive me if I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the same respect to be given to me if that’s how I’m most comfortable. I’ve been considering everyone else’s comfort for 40 years and I’ve rarely allowed myself to think I had the right or the worth as a woman to be openly wanted in a way where a man would actually DO something strong about it. I’ve accepted a lot of ambivalent, non-expressive men who hoped that I would draw them out and make them more…something. Well, I just want my turn. I don’t need a guy to make me more something, but I want a guy who’s already more something and isn’t relying on me to make it all happen. And who isn’t afraid to tell me he wants to kiss me.

You’ve as much proved what I’m saying above. You say men like Karl Elvis–meaning men who ask for what they want–are rare. If that’s the case, then there are a bunch of MEN whining that they want to be pursued, too, so it sure seems unfair to complain about women who want it–unless you’re going to complain about all of us.

Second, I am attracted to this person, though I’m just getting to know him so I can’t tell at what level yet. However, my mentioning to DN that I hadn’t even thought about if *I* wanted to go out with HIM has less to do with (as it seems you’re implying) my cruelly setting this guy up to be rejected just so I can have an ego stroke than it has to do with the fact that my background with relationships has been such that I never really gave myself the right to consider what I was feeling or wanted as much as what the man was feeling or wanted. See, I thought I didn’t matter much, so I didn’t *get* to think about if I wanted someone unless I was proved to be worthy of being wanted. This is a definite problem for me that I need to work on, but my saying I hadn’t thought of it was indicating my sudden awakening to the fact I was thinking more about him and what he wanted than what I wanted myself. I was acting in the old, unhealthy pattern–my desires mattered less than my desirability to him. So I was blocking out my own emotions and just focusing on whether he wanted ME–because somewhere deep down, I think they aren’t allowed to matter. Because I can’t even believe a guy would find me valuable, so he has to confirm it for me to even get to a level where I feel human enough to think about it.

So basically, not cruel to him at all. Cruel to me. Got it?

So recognizing that was a wakeup call to me and I’m glad DN’s comment brought it up. But it wasn’t at all what you thought it was.

You’re a male; so perhaps you’re only thinking about the male’s insecurities and having compassion for them. It would probably be a good thing to remember women have them, too, regardless of how confident we appear to be in other areas of our lives. Compassion for both sides is probably best.

But it’s nice to know that you didn’t have issues with age. I’ve been finding younger men outside of the generation I grew up with seem to have no real issues with age difference. It’s interesting, because men my age rarely were that open when they were young.

Nikki: I think he’s at least somewhat shy. Not too slippery, but I don’t know him that well, so who knows. If I were 20, my sixth sense would have guessed that he was into me. Because I am so much older, and so much fatter than I was when I was 20, I find it hard to fathom that he is, so even though I would have thought they were clear signs in another stage of life, I find myself doubting them now. I know that’s my problem, not his.

Or, in person… “should we be off making out in a corner?”

Keep in mind that I’m very single. But those are my thoughts.

I think you should knock him over the head w/ a club and drag him back to your cave. That will sort things out.

Full disclosure/disclaimers: I just had a nasty shock in the pseudo-work arena and am up late because I’m agitated (read: pissy and frustrated) about it. Also, sexual politics and gender relations is a bit of a soapbox issue for me: The whole debate as I see it is full of hypocrisy and double standards (especially on the part of women) and I get pretty angry about that too. especially the “I want to be pursued” issue. So caveat emptor.

So, anyway, my opinion. He sounds interested to me. Assuming your report of his actions is accurate (and in my experience you’re a good observer, as well as being sexy, intelligent and perceptive, so it’s likely to be accurate) , he’s putting in too much attention and effort for someone who merely wants to be friends. He might be looking for something else from you, but intimacy is indicated. Ambivalence and denial are also indicated, for example with the aborted other date and the suspicious email nonavailability just before potential romantic dinners. Looks to me as though he wants you and he also *does not want* you: literally, he’s pulled both ways and doesn’t know where the fuck he’s at.

Of course, I just reread the comments and in particular your response to darkneuro, and I can hardly blame him. If you’re not sure you’re into him, and he’s picked that up (and I’m certain he has), why *should* he try any harder to pursue you? The joy of being rejected? The thrill of ’she’s only into me as long as I keep trying to maintain the relationship’ angst?

I’m even getting mixed messages reading your entry. On the one hand, all this analysis, what sounds like invites to dates, and on the other your response to DN makes him sound like a specimen you’re pondering on the table.

omg, it’s 3am. And this window’s too small to look at what I’ve written. And I have no idea how to finish this fucking comment. What am I saying? An hour’s gone by, I’m much calmer, which also makes me sleepier. His behaviour…. is normal and predictable under the circumstances. And there was something else, but I can’t put my finger on it. I think you might be placing unreasonable expectations on your men. Karl Elvis is a somewhat rare gem these days.

I went out for a while with a man whose feelings/thoughts I never could fathom, and his slipperiness ended up with me giving up. On the other hand, the love of my life turned out to be surprisingly shy, which I wouldn’t have guessed to begin with.

Shyness = cool. Slipperiness = pain in the ass.

; )

BTW, I’m a 26 year old who dated (prior to my happy marriage) without regards to age, and I found such inconsequential differences to be just that. Many men my age feel the same way.